Possible EW Modification board - *continuation*

Posted: 8/5/2009 7:29:52 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

Hi Carricre,

Please don't be cross with Thierry. It is not unusual for people to ask about obtaining a theremin that sounds just like Clara Rockmore's, and we sometimes need to explain that it's not going to make them sound like Clara Rockmore.

I'm guessing, but if I posted on a violin forum that I was quite new to the violin, and wanted a violin just like the one Heifetz plays I would not be surprised if someone told me the same thing.

Also, "what is a good professional theremin?" is a bit of a tough question at the moment - there is something of a hole in the market since Moog dropped the etherwave pro. Here we differ from the violin world, where - I imagine - there is a good range of quality instruments available, to suit most preferences and budgets.

90% of the history of the development of the theremin electronics can be attributed to precisely two men, Lev Termen and Bob Moog, both of whom are no longer with us. Bob Moog spent a lot of years designing theremins until he got to the ethervox, arguably his best instrument, and probably the least commercially viable theremin ever marketed, although the RCA Victor is a strong contender too - because the scarcity of excellent theremin makers is echoed in the number of professional classical thereminists.

Moog Music's current focus appears to be on the electronic music market, where the etherwave ticks a lot of the requirements boxes for amateurs and professionals alike, and is the de facto recommendation for a newcomer with the budget for one, or as a next theremin for someone making a more financially cautious entry into the world of thereminists.

I should also add that we get a very broad range of people interested in the theremin, from skilled professional musicians to people with no musical experience whatsoever, from the purest classical to the most extreme experimental, (another common question is "how do I build a theremin into my guitar" which might be likened to "if I drill out the neck of my violin can I use it as a flute?") and performance and installation artists too, as well as electronics geniuses and kids wanting something quick and easy to build for a science fair. And we all have different requirements and opinions. Sometimes it is hard to know what is the right answer to a simple question to best suit a particular person.

And of course, we're all a little bit... er, "insane" is a strong word, but it is an eccentric instrument, there's no denying it, and most people react to it as they would react to naked skydiving: interesting to watch, but they wouldn't want to do it.
Posted: 8/5/2009 7:43:48 PM
Etherspiel

From: Los Angeles

Joined: 3/8/2005

[i]"And there is probably nothing wrong with the EW as a starting / intermediate Theremin - Except (in my opinion) its horrible sound."[/i]

I take exception to this - I like the etherwave sound. So much so, that even though I own an Etherwave Pro, I bought a new E+ just to get the nicer sound that it has. I find it has the most traditional theremin sound of any of the current production theremins - whereas the E-Pro has a "bright" sound that cannot be toned down. The only thing I like about the pro is that it has nice linearity. I dislike the sound of it at almost any setting, and I HATE the look of it - it looks like a reject from an IKEA store.

I find I mainly play my E+ now, as it has a true heterodyne sound, not a digitally synthesized sound like the E-Pro. I am not sure why you don't consider it a "Pro" instrument - it has very good linearity, and a great volume control.

Posted: 8/5/2009 8:08:30 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

[i]"I take exception to this" - Eitherspiel [/i]

Please dont.. I did say "in my opinion".. I am surely allowed to express [b]my[/b] opinion (?!) just as you are allowed to express yours.. I love the sounds from almost every Moog product (even though some have tended to be over-used) but the EW Standard and the E-Pro are two instruments whose sounds I do not particularly like.

Liking or Disliking a particular sound is quite a personal thing sometimes.. and catering for the range of personal preferences is a big challenge - it is also one reason why I like the sound synthesiser.. One can generally twiddle the knobs to avoid sounds you dont like..

Posted: 8/5/2009 8:16:03 PM
Carricre

Joined: 7/30/2009

Perhaps I voiced my frustration a little strongly, I certainly didn't mean to. Though I do hope that the source of my frustration on this topic isn't a mystery.

My father-in-law is a luthier, and our family owns and operates the local music shop. Shameless plug = www.villagemusicalc.com . It's very common for folks to come in and looking for an instrument that has a particular sound. Last week in fact a young man came in (I'd say he was about 17) and said that recently he'd been thinking of getting a new guitar and that he really was into Django Reinhardt these days. Well Django played a very specific type of guitar called a stress-top, he even helped design it. We asked him what he currently played and he had a horrible fender martin knock off (fender these days is making some of the worst acoustic guitars around, but they are cheap), so we showed him the two stress-tops we had in. Neither made him a better guitarist, but both had the sound he was looking for. He bought the cheaper of the two. If you as you said asked about that violin of Heifetz's I think the over all response you would get would be answers about which builder built his and which possibly easier to locate makes make similar instruments. The last thing anyone would think is that you were looking for a magic instrument that made you play better.

So, basically that there was the source of my issue. I've searched around for original RCAs but they seem rare. Also the idea I got about them from the DVD that came with my Etherwave was that they are more limited in range to the modern ones. I when I'd originally asked sort of expected to get answers like, "oh, look at these plans here, they are based on the Claramin(hehe)," or, "you might try...." But if anything I'm coming away from this all the more bewildered.

FredM, you don't know how much I appreciate the work you've done. As soon as payday happens I'll be heading to that charity you mentioned on your behalf. I would happily take on the challenge of helping design the mod you speak of because it seems to me like a fine idea, but I'm not at all skilled in this manner of thing and I'd be frankly more than a little scared I'd mess it up. The other worry on my end about it is the board diagram in that PDF you linked me too for the EW, it's very different than what mine looks like and I wonder if I don't have an older model? The serial number in mine is 5218 if that helps date it, and if mine is different from the new ones I fear the design not working for other people.
Posted: 8/5/2009 8:24:53 PM
Carricre

Joined: 7/30/2009

Etherspiel:

Interesting note about the linearity. Now, from what I've read on this site I know I'm in an extreme minority here, but I found the linear-ness of the pitch to be the single biggest hurdle when I was learning to play. Coming from a string players background it's nearly muscle memory for me that low notes are "spaced" farther apart than highs. For me it'd be much easier to play if the high octave was within a space of about 2-3 inches and the lowest in about 6-8 inches.

FredM, would (oh crap, I'm totally about to side track you, SORRY!) would the ability to adjust the non-linear-ness of the pitch be something that the EW mod board could add? Or perhaps is this a feature of your theremin's design?
Posted: 8/5/2009 9:08:31 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

(Not "play as well as" - I meant "sound like" literally. Example - at a recent event I was having a bit of fun playing a fairly convincing but out of tune tuba-esque oom-pah on my etherwave. Soon after, another thereminist (a better melodic thereminist than me - most thereminists are!) tried the same thing, on the same instrument with the same waveform and brightness settings and the same amp, and he made the same moves as I did and it sounded nothing like a tuba. The player is literally part of the theremin circuit, so body shape and mass are factors as are differences in movement too subtle for the eye to notice. I would have thought the way a violinist wields his bow, for instance, would have a bearing on a violin's sound and be subtly different for every player. Or perhaps this is something that really is peculiar to the theremin.)


Here are plans for the RCA Victor, which is as close to the "Claramin" as we can get, in that it is designed by Theremin. (But [i]not[/i] Clara's theremin - that was custom built.)

http://www.thereminworld.com/article.asp?id=27

(I note that three years ago, when it was written, some of the components were "becoming scarce".)


Etherspiel: "[i]a reject from an IKEA store[/i]" I so agree! Well said. :-)
Posted: 8/5/2009 9:21:00 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

[i]"FredM, would (oh crap, I'm totally about to side track you, SORRY!) would the ability to adjust the non-linear-ness of the pitch be something that the EW mod board could add? Or perhaps is this a feature of your theremin's design?" [/i]

Not possible to include on the mod..
Adjustable linearity is allready a function on my prototype Theremin.

Thanks for any donation you make to StreetKidsRescue (http://www.streetkidsrescue.org/).. I should really be spending more time fundraising for this than I do..
Posted: 8/5/2009 10:19:18 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

I said: "the EW Standard and the E-Pro are two instruments whose sounds I do not particularly like"

I think I should qualify this..

I have heard these instuments used in performances which I do like, and where their sound has not bothered me at all.. Peter Pringle playing the E-Pro, for example, can sound glorious.. Likewise Gordon's compositions / performances using F**ked up EW standard sounds are awesome..

I agree that there is a lot that one can do with these instruments..

But I also believe that (to my ears) even Lydia Kavina could not get as good a bass sound from a EW Standard as she does from her Tvox.. Even though she could get a better bass from the EW Standard than perhaps anyone else.

.. But then (again, my opinion) anyone who can get a Gakken to sound like a "pro" instrument the way Lydia can, well - there's something truly astounding about that! .. I dont believe in majik - but sometimes....
Posted: 8/6/2009 1:49:17 AM
Etherspiel

From: Los Angeles

Joined: 3/8/2005

Keep in mind, also, that there are many ways to set the tone on the Etherwave - I don't always care for the way others have it set. I spend considerable time getting mine to the setting I like - moving one of the sound knobs even a hair can change the tone and bring out different harmonics.

The TVox is a very pure sine wave - I find this sound quite dull and boring, personally. The E-Pro can make this same sound, as can the Theremax. I wish someone would make a theremin with the rich, complex sound of the original instruments.
Posted: 8/6/2009 12:09:51 PM
djpb_designs

From: Escondido, CA

Joined: 2/6/2008

Welcome to "the quest for golden tone" ...

Sometimes I think it would be easier to go on a Grail Quest than to find "the perfect tone". Us guitar amp builders spend a good deal of time chasing it and the arguments are sillier and less based in fact than anything the theremin community has come up with so far. But I digress ...

Thierry and Fred do attempt to characterize things scientifically ... this is absolutely great work you guys!

Don

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