Wiki "Thereminist" article draft

Posted: 8/3/2009 7:26:46 AM
coalport

From: Canada

Joined: 8/1/2008

I'm just upsetting people and, believe it or not, that is not my aim here. I guess I've said what I wanted to say, so I will stop posting on the subject in this forum. I just read the first couple of lines of the new article (sandbox2):

"A Thereminist is a musician that plays the electronic musical instrument called a theremin."

The word "thereminist" should not be capitalized.

"Theremins are popular instruments among avant-garde and new music artists because of their perceived freedom from traditional compositional structures."

This sentence is unclear. We do not know if the word "their" refers to theremins or to the avant-garde and new music artists.


"It is also performed as a classical instrument, and is occasionally used in jazz improvisation."

I'm not sure this is even a sentence at all!


"Oh, what a world!" - the last words of The Wicked Witch Of The West

LOVED the article on Florence Farr.
Posted: 8/3/2009 1:20:15 PM
djpb_designs

From: Escondido, CA

Joined: 2/6/2008

A little off topic, but not too far ...

There is a movie called "Idiocracy" that's been playing on cable TV for a bit. While it is a terrible movie with bad acting, the message is spot on! The premise is that two very "ordinary" people are put in stasis and are supposed to stay there for a fairly short duration. And as all good "what could possibly go wrong" plots go, they end up there for hundreds of years. They arrive to a country of extremely stupid and lame slackers, finding that they themselves are the smartest people on earth.

To cut to the chase, at the end the main characters ride this attraction called the "Time Machine" which takes you through a tour of "history". And it is absolutely scary how wrong the developers of the ride presented what they thought the history of the country was.

As lame as this movie is, one does not have to go very far to see a current trend heading in that general direction!

Don

Posted: 8/3/2009 1:26:05 PM
husc

From: Netherlands

Joined: 7/19/2009

Those wiki entries you did are a good read, short, full of useful links and well written! I am watching Shogun Assasin tonight..

..keep up the good work!
Posted: 8/3/2009 1:50:18 PM
Joe Max

From: Oakland, California

Joined: 1/2/2009

[i]"A Thereminist is a musician that plays the electronic musical instrument called a theremin."

The word "thereminist" should not be capitalized.

"Theremins are popular instruments among avant-garde and new music artists because of their perceived freedom from traditional compositional structures."

This sentence is unclear. We do not know if the word "their" refers to theremins or to the avant-garde and new music artists.


"It is also performed as a classical instrument, and is occasionally used in jazz improvisation."

I'm not sure this is even a sentence at all![/i]

If you keep up comments like this, I wish you would continue to post on the subject, coalport! I genuinely would appreciate your input, even if mixed with a bit of snark.

The first sentence in the opening paragraph was one I wrote. (And you're right, it should not be capitalized. Fixed.)

The ones following that are from the original article. I'll work on them too, but right now MOST of the text that's there is just "place-holding" until I can get around to editing it.

The opening section of a Wiki article is supposed to be:

a) a short, general definition of the subject

b) a capsule synopsis of the following text. The idea is that someone could casually read only that first section and be able to get a basic answer to the "what is it?" question.

The "meat" of what I'm trying to do is (working on a suggestion from Thomas) is to re-cast the "thereminsts" idea into a chronological framework.

What I've concentrated on so far is the "1920 to 1960" section, which I've almost completely re-written from what text was available in the old article's "Uses" section, but incorporating what I could get from the Google Books excerpts from Glinsky (the first chapter).

Secondarily, I've worked a bit on the "1960 to 1990" section, which is mostly cut-and-paste so far, but when the Glinsky book arrives I expect I'll be re-writing most of that too.

I'm gathering that Glinsky is considered [i]the[/i] authoritative historical reference on thereminsts by TW folks. Is that a fair assumption?

I'm also relying on the liner notes by Bob Moog from Rockmore's album (another valid published source), and of course the "Electronic Odyssey" film, both of which I already possess.

In the opinion of the TW denizens here, would those three sources be generally considered accurate and fair? Can anyone suggest other equally valid published sources?
Posted: 8/3/2009 2:35:12 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

[i]"I'm just upsetting people and, believe it or not, that is not my aim here. I guess I've said what I wanted to say, so I will stop posting on the subject in this forum." - Coalport [/i]

This will probably be my last posting on this subject as well, but for different reasons.. (Only if I have something non-critical and constructive to say, will I post)..

I think Gordon was right to rebuke me earlier - right or wrong, he made me realise that this thread is no longer an "Argument" thread.. The "argument" has ended because Joe IS undertaking the task of editing the Wiki page.. and that, as Gordon pointed out, reminding people of ones personal predjudiced view on Wiki (or, for that matter, anything else) repeatedly is not constructive or helpful.

I feel that a more important "sideline" to the process Joe is undertaking will probably be the discussion about the content of the wiki page which occurs here.. I spouted my opinions about wiki, and will not (in the light of what I have said above, LOL) repeat them.. But really, opinions about wiki are "off topic" as, too, are discussions regarding the 'sort of author/s' who should be producing / editing / compiling the page.

I realised that Gordon was right - and also that this topic could be a useful place for us at TW to learn more, and discuss Theremin history etc.. That making "disruptive" comments has absolutely no beneficial effect.. And that if I forget about the fact that Wiki is "involved", and regard this just as another TW "non-argument" thread, I could actually enjoy reading it and not feel compelled to argue over "off-topic" issues that "push my buttons".

I can though, see how Coalport could be in a different position over this - I probably know as much about Theremin history etc as Joe does.. Peter, on the other hand, is an expert who could eat us both (and possibly a bit of Uncle Howie) for breakfast! I think that both Peter and I suffer from having been primed for argument from an early age, and possibly tend to be a bit pedantic and inflexible, particularly when we know we are right. (LOL!)

If the subject matter was some area of electronics I was an expert on, I would find it extremely difficult to walk away from argument here - it is only because I have little knowledge that I am able to "let go".. So I admire Peter for being able to do this.
Posted: 8/3/2009 8:42:10 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

Thank you Peter and Fred for your gracious and thoughtful responses. We can group-hug later. :-)

To business...

"[i]Theremins are popular instruments among avant-garde and new music artists because of their perceived freedom from traditional compositional structures. It is also performed as a classical instrument, and is occasionally used in jazz improvisation.[/i]"

As the rest of the article is taking a chronological structure, I think it would be consistent to list the various uses in similar order.

My understanding is that Lev primarily intended it as a classical instrument, and this is certainly the way the RCA theremin was promoted, as well as being the use that the first highly prominent thereminist, Clara Rockmore, made of it.

After classical I would mention avant garde, as it soon attracted the interest of some avant garde composers of the time. Then I would mention it's use in film scores, particularly in science fiction and terror. (i.e The Day The Earth Stood Still and Spellbound, - Hoffman and more recently several others, most notably Lydia Kavina, but other notables too,) and as a novelty instrument - Hoffman (and Musaire in the UK) were both variety acts, and more recently comedian Bill Bailey.

Then occasional usage in pop and rock. Lothar and the Hand People, Led Zep, Capt. Beefheart (Hoffman played on "Electricity") and The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band.

And more recently adoption by the electronica and experimental etc. subcultures. notable examples might include The Lothars, Add N To (X), Eric Ross.

I'm not entirely sure when jazz fits into the chronology, improvised or lounge. (i.e. recently Pamelia Kurstin and Robby Virus of The Pimento Project to name one of each.)

Here's a blurry line. Does an artist who uses a theremin in a piece of performance art, or an installation, count as a thereminist? If so, then a recent notable example of a theremin installation artist would be Ray Lee. Possibly early in the chronology - e.g. the terpsitone.


As for including people who are visible on internet forums, etc. I didn't think that qualified. Generally my understanding is that, for the purposes of the article, being well known amongst thereminists is not considered as notability.

Neither (if you had me in mind) do I think that I qualify as a published artist - one iTunes only album, not a major label, and one article in a Portuguese based fashion magazine with a few distributors in London, New York etc (http://www.zootmag.com/) is not what I consider "notable."

I would however, like to see mention of Theremin Festivals somewhere. The two largest were The First International Theremin Festival, in Portland, Maine in 1997, and Hands Off 2007 (*), ten years later, in Bushey, England, both with around 50 attendees. It seems likely that the Portland event was reported on, and I have - somewhere (I have not so much a filing system as a fire hazard) - a copy of The Wire magazine, (http://www.thewire.co.uk/ - distributed through major newsagent chains throughout the UK) with an article covering Hands Off that name-drops a few thereminists.

Joe, digging out back issues will take some effort, so I'll only do it if you consider it important.

(*) I declare an interest in Hands Off.

Thread continued here (http://www.thereminworld.com/forum.asp?F=1&T=4130&cmd=p&p=1).

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