New theremin? Nano from Poland...

Posted: 7/20/2014 1:56:51 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

Hi Roy,

" Will keep thinking on it but don't hold your breath as many, not least yourself, are way ahead in having thought about this and it's potential solutions."

The thread on which this matter was / is being  discussed is here: idea-for-theremin-staccato-pedal

Hi Gordon,

"Fred, that is exactly why I need time to reread the thread at my leisure and fully absorb the information."

Sadly, I doubt that reading the thread or the links will help much - The information with which one could make any assessment of the instruments usability or suitability simply isn't given. Until more complete information is provided, either to the forum or to a potential customer, and such information provides the required answers in sufficient detail, purchase of this instrument IMO would be a high risk.

This instrument may be "good", it may be "excellent", it may do everything you want / need or be adaptable to do what you want / need.. Or it may be a useless pair of rods with pedal and unusable pre-programmed electronics, fit only (perhaps) as a template in which to build your own electronics.

Can you afford to buy a ticket for this lottery, or should you wait to see if the odds improve - That is the question.

I am almost sorry I brought this instrument to your attention - I think that for your applications, the Theremini is probably more suitable and lower risk.

Fred.

Posted: 7/20/2014 2:34:56 PM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"I am not certain that this isnt player "stutter" though, but (if I am hearing and looking at the same as you are) I am inclined to think you are right.."  - FredM

If so, the player must have a terrible tremor (not that there's anything wrong with that).  The argument against this cause for the non-smooth pitch change is: you don't hear it in the upper end of the pitch, but you hear it in the lower end of the pitch, and in both cases it appears and sounds the same going both up and down in pitch.  That would have to be a very selective and precise palsy.  If anything, a shaky hand would likely be more noticeable in the midrange where the ear is most sensitive, and particularly in the high region where the notes traditionally cramp together due to higher hand / antenna capacitive interaction.

"And then along comes assec's modular theremin and I am totally in love with the look of it! So, providing that it meets my not-too-demanding requirements, the current plan is to get one at the earliest opportunity..."  - GordonC

I'd wait for more data to indicate the sticky pitch issue is either fixed or somehow much better than the MP3 demos posted.  Once you've experienced sticky pitch you know first hand what a terribly annoying and unmusical thing it can be.  I had a bit of it in my first prototype and it drove me up the wall until I tracked down the cause (undithered DDS artifacts).  The pitch side must be completely smooth, with no noticeable steps, glitches, or non-linearities (unless you intentionally introduce them after the fact with pitch correction and the like).  Smooth portamento is a hallmark of the instrument, and playing a Theremin on pitch is difficult enough as it is.

Posted: 7/20/2014 3:01:54 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

Fred - I meant reread the staccato pedal thread - it makes my head spin. You guys are brilliant and creative and the thread is as organised as a herd of cats. :-)

The probability is I will own both eventually. My thought is that buying the nano first is more compatible with my finances, and I have heard mutterings about some sort of upgrade for the Moog offering in the pipeline - so I can justify waiting by telling myself it might be a theremini 2.0. 

Dewster - good point - sticky pitch at the low frequencies - noted. 

Posted: 7/22/2014 1:33:32 AM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

Gordon - I understand.. And you are something of a special case anyway I think ;-) ... Even if you cant really play the Nano, you might still set it up next to your EW just to cause 'musical' interactions, or whatever.. ;-)

I have no real doubt that you will find a way to use it to enhance or compliment your performance.. I dont really know why I gave the cautions I did - I see you as one of those strange people who actually somehow manages to get things "right" by doing the "wrong" things, LOL - ;-)

IMO, you too are "brilliant and creative" and with this have a whacky unconventionality that frequently light little sparks - things I have never thought of - that send me off exploring new directions - for better or worse ;-) LOL. - What makes this particularly special is that its not just confined to one field - you have got me thinking technical, musical, philosophical, behavioral and loony thoughts that would never have impinged had you not been here!

;-)

 

Fred.

Posted: 7/27/2014 1:59:24 AM
rickreid

From: Denver, Colorado, USA

Joined: 9/6/2009

While you guys were busy speculating and debating, I ordered a Nano theremin.  It arrived today.  I am neither an electronics expert nor a an expert thereminist, so I am not sure how well I can answer some of your more technical questions.  Here, though, are my initial impressions:

This thing really is nano!  Not counting the volume pressure pad, the floor unit is smaller than a deck of cards.  All of the hardware seems to be sturdy.  Red and green LEDs on the floor unit and the volume antenna indicate when each component is powered on and they help with the tuning process.    Everything comes packed into a couple of plastic boxes similar to VHS cassette cases.  The boxes are pretty flimsy.  I don't think I will use them.

Assembly was a bit of a puzzle.  There was no instruction manual included.  The pitch antenna has threads compatible with European standard microphone stands. So, I combined a couple of odd adapters I had on hand to mount the pitch antenna to a US microphone stand.  The volume antenna is held to the side of the mic stand with Velcro straps.  A rubber gasket prevents the volume antenna from grounding to the mic stand.  This mounting method doesn't feel as sturdy as I would like it to, and it takes some care and effort to get the straps secure.  The power supply has European-style pins.  An adapter was not included for use with North American standard mains outlets.  So, I used a universal power supply that I already had on hand, set to 12VDC, positive tip.  The floor unit has a jack for each antenna.  They are not labeled, but the jacks are different sizes, so it is impossible to connect them incorrectly. The pitch preview earphone took a bit of trial-and-error to install.  The cable ends with a very small two-prong plug, but the floor unit has a three-prong jack that is not labeled. So, that makes four possible ways to plug in the cable.  Two ways work and the other two ways don't work.  The mono earplug is the type that is supposed to wedge into the cartilage of your outer ear.  I find that type of earphone very uncomfortable, so I may make my own adapter to use other types of earphones.  The pitch preview option doesn't seem to have any active electronics in the cable or earphone, so you could probably get by without this component if you wire in your own earphones.  This is a cheap option, though, so I didn't mind paying that bit extra for it.

Both antennae are very long, compared to most other theremins I've played.  The pitch antenna is more thick and sturdy that a typical, telescoping portable radio antenna.  The volume antenna has four segments.  The first two segments are black and are telescopic.  They are not responsive to volume gesture.  The next segment is chrome plated and it houses the tuning knob and related electronics.  If you touch this segment, the pitch is slightly affected, but not the volume.  The outermost  chrome portion is isolated by a rubber gasket.  It is the playable segment of the volume antenna.    I found the volume antenna more comfortable to play if I tilt it toward my body, so I don't have to reach so far as I do with the antenna parallel to my shoulders.  Those sharp teeth on a couple of the antenna segments are positioned in such a way that you would have to make a deliberate effort to hurt yourself on them.  I am not concerned about any potential for accidental injury.

Tuning is easier than I expected.  For volume tuning, I touched the outer segment of the antenna with my left hand, then rotated the tuning knob with my right hand until just the point where an LED on the antenna turned from red to green.  This is the position for complete silence.  Similarly, on the pitch antenna, I held my right arm to about where I wanted the zero beat zone to end, then rotated the tuning knob until an LED turned from red to green.  It is a bit awkward to have to hold the floor unit while tuning.  It may take several attempts to get the tuning just right.  In stocking feet, though, I've found that I can gently adjust the tuning with my toes.  Although I've only played my Nano theremin for several minutes, so far, the tuning seems to be quite stable.

The foot pressure volume control pad works okay. The volume goes up as you apply more pressure and goes down with less pressure.  If you step off the pad you get complete silence. The dynamic range is not great and it takes a light touch to get subtle variations in volume.  Playing from a sitting position may make it easier to vary the pressure.  The foot control is probably okay if you are trying to play another instrument at the same time, but I recommend the hand-controlled volume antenna for most other situations.  The volume antenna is more responsive and works just as you would expect it to.

Lastly, a couple of recessed switches on the floor unit affect the timbre and pitch range.  The timbre switch has already been discussed in this thread.  One setting is more sweet, with the qualities of a violin or female operatic vocalist.  The other setting is more buzzy/brassy sounding and is more reminiscent of a vintage RCA theremin in the low register.  I like both timbre options.  It's too bad that you cannot mix them or select a waveform somewhere in the range between them like you can on an Etherwave, but both sounds are interesting and I'm glad to have the choice.  It isn't quite so obvious what the pitch switch does.  It changes the playable octave range, serving a roughly similar function to Thierry Frenkel's Etherwave pitch mod.  With the switch in one position, you get a sound all the way down to the lowest audible pitches before it reaches zero beat.  With the switch in the other position, the bass frequency range is truncated, with sound cutting out while it is still at a conventionally musical pitch.

I'm a rank amateur player, so I can't really tell you much about the linearity of the pitch antenna.  I can say that, for my purposes, I find the Nano's playability to be similar to the Etherwave Plus and the Burns B3 Pro.  I'm satisfied with it.

Overall, I'm glad I made the purchase.  The Nano theremin has a unique look.  It seems to work well and sound good.  It's relatively inexpensive.  And its compact design will make it very easy to store and to transport.  I recommend it.

Posted: 7/27/2014 7:22:07 AM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

A big thumbs up for taking the plunge. I am pleased for you that you feel it was a worthwhile purchase :-)

So the volume plate works as one would anticipate, with increased pressure meaning increased volume, not as I hoped. :-( That pushes it down my wish-list a bit, below the theremini and my as yet hypothetical staccato pedal. But I still love it for the look, and your impression of the timbres is encouraging. 

Can you clarify the relationship between the volume rod and the pressure plate. Is, as I would anticipate, the pressure plate disabled when the volume rod is attached? I would not like to have to keep pressure on the plate at all times. The benefits of a compact design for transportation would be significantly offset by having to carry a couple of house bricks to stand on the pressure plate. ;-)

Out of curiosity, did you (or can you) peek inside the enclosure to see the circuitry? I am guessing there is a little microprocessor lurking in there.

Posted: 7/27/2014 11:32:51 AM
rickreid

From: Denver, Colorado, USA

Joined: 9/6/2009

Right, Gordon.  The installation of the volume rod does disable the pressure plate.  I failed to mention, also, that the volume rod has a mute button.  Very handy.

I haven't opened the floor unit yet.  I like to have  a thing at least one day before I take it apart.  

 

 

Posted: 7/27/2014 12:41:53 PM
Amethyste

From: In between the Pitch and Volume hand ~ New England

Joined: 12/17/2010

Hello Rickreid!
Could I bother you for a sound sample? I would be very appreciative! I thin this theremin looks very nice! I would like to purchase one to facilitate transportation of my gear for gigs!

Thank you so much!

Posted: 7/27/2014 12:45:17 PM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"While you guys were busy speculating and debating, I ordered a Nano theremin."  - rickreid

Thanks for taking one for the team rickreid!

"Assembly was a bit of a puzzle.  There was no instruction manual included."

Not even a piece of paper?

"The volume antenna is held to the side of the mic stand with Velcro straps.  A rubber gasket prevents the volume antenna from grounding to the mic stand.  This mounting method doesn't feel as sturdy as I would like it to, and it takes some care and effort to get the straps secure."

Hmm.  I wouldn't have thought velcro from the pics.

"Those sharp teeth on a couple of the antenna segments are positioned in such a way that you would have to make a deliberate effort to hurt yourself on them."

I'm wondering why they didn't snip the teeth off with a metal cutter?  The teeth don't seem to be serving any purpose other than to snag and puncture things unexpectedly.

"Tuning is easier than I expected.  For volume tuning, I touched the outer segment of the antenna with my left hand, then rotated the tuning knob with my right hand until just the point where an LED on the antenna turned from red to green.  This is the position for complete silence.  Similarly, on the pitch antenna, I held my right arm to about where I wanted the zero beat zone to end, then rotated the tuning knob until an LED turned from red to green."

Nice!  This makes me wonder if there is a processor inside the volume unit.

"Lastly, a couple of recessed switches on the floor unit affect the timbre and pitch range."

For some reason I was thinking these were recessed trimmer potentiometers, not switches.

I'm a rank amateur player, so I can't really tell you much about the linearity of the pitch antenna.

Do you notice any stickiness or stepping of the pitch field?

"I haven't opened the floor unit yet.  I like to have  a thing at least one day before I take it apart."

Will there be naked pictures?

Posted: 7/27/2014 1:07:04 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

"->>

"Lastly, a couple of recessed switches on the floor unit affect the timbre and pitch range."

For some reason I was thinking these were recessed trimmer potentiometers, not switches.

<<-"

Interesting - I thought there were two separate audio outputs, one 'raw' and one 'smooth' with the 'raw' being trimmer adjustable.. Real nice to have this feedback, thanks Rick!

If there is only one audio output (other than preview) then the issue of dual VCA could be cleared up. If the linearity really compares with the EW thats impressive..

Have you heard any change or deterioration in sound quality when the volume is reduced with the volume antenna? are there any ghost tones / noises? I suspect that theres nothing too bothersome or you would have said so.. You have a Burns and EW so would notice ..

Some slow sweeps at various (antenna controlled) volume levels would answer most doubts I think - a video showing the hand position / pitch relationship would be icing on the cake! ;-)

Oh - I really dont like the idea of Velcro supporting the volume antenna! the "neat" aspect of the design just took a nose-dive after reading that :-(

"I'm wondering why they didn't snip the teeth off with a metal cutter?"

If the teeth were actually gripping the OD there could be justification for leaving them - but they dont seem to be from what I can see.. The teeth are easily removed - bend them a few times with heavy pliers and they break off, then a little grinding with a Dremmel and you have a smooth insert you would never know was once a T-Nut!.. But hey - its an extra 3 minutes! - If people aren't bothered then they save an hour for every 20 sold, and the cost of wear on the grinder!  ;-) .... And it adds a "hobby / home made" look that would be difficult to achieve so effectively any other way (well, apart from more Velcro ;-)

But perhaps ????? They serve some other function and are essential - perhaps they form a wave-guide for "the" EM fields in some subtle mystical way and give linearity thereby - they are probably iron, and we all know the amazing things iron is claimed to do for linearity when incorporated in mystical antennas ;-)

Fred.

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