Moog vs Burns

Posted: 11/17/2022 1:27:39 AM

Joined: 11/14/2022

So I need two CV outs one for pitch and one for volume. And one that has midi also I assume it’s just midi out? And is it 5pin din? I only have two synths that have cv ins that being the moog voyager and the seq pro3. They both have midi in out and thru 5 pin din and the sequential pro3 even has midi via usb I believe. I’m a little confused about the etherwave plus and etherwave standard  and I know the moog etherwave thereminis the 2022 one I think. Saw the claravox it was a lot of bread. I read the new etherwave theremin uses features from the etherwave plus and the etherwave standard. I thought the new etherwave had 2 cv outs and midi out as well? Sorry can’t rember everything I read. I have a keyboard amp that’s in stereo. Wasn’t sure if the new moog etherwave had stereo audi outs as well. I don’t really use cv. I just use midi and use one as the master and one as the slave. I’ve midied the moog and the 0ro3 before using the moog as the master and the pro3 as the slave. Don’t really do that anymore since I use the sequencer in the pro3  and then tune the moog voyager to the seq pro3 and play to it. I saw that sweet water special it was 750 dollars basically. It seems I need to write down of list of each models features I’m interested in the theremin because I realize that’s what was the predecessor to modular and then to synths like the Minimoog modelD. I’m torn between getting a theremin and a sequential prophet5 rev4  poly synth. I don’t have any polyphonic analogs although the sequential pro3 is paraphonic, not the same but you can play three note chords. I’m also visually impaired and wasn’t sure if the theremin might present problems. I play keyboards all right because I have muscle memory before my vision got bad. I’m what you call low vision. Thanks for all your encouragement . I learned how to play the ten hole diatonic after my traumatic brain injury. I suffer from PTSD and I focused on learning to play the harmonica  instead of my injury. I saw sweet waters video on using the theremin to control synths . I’m just not comfortable with my knowledge of cv being it’s lacking. I can navigate around my moog voyager ok I have a basic understanding of it. I don’t consider myself a synthisist. I’m just a jazz piano player that plays other keyboards and synths. Thanks for yourencouragement although I need to be sure about all the connectivity regarding cv before I jump so to speak. I also remember something about going from 3.5 to quarter inch but maybe that’s eurorack which I’m not involved in. Not sure though I don’ trust my memory. I do my reading to learn abut subject matter but then can’t remember well enough abut which theremin has what features. So I do rember the theremini has stereo outs though. It’s seems to be
Considered  a toy. And the claravox  has digtal and analog engines? Thanks for all your reply’s and informative narratives. Take care

Posted: 11/17/2022 1:30:56 AM

Joined: 11/14/2022

Sorry for the dual posts it was an accident thanks

Posted: 11/17/2022 2:50:58 AM

Joined: 11/14/2022

I played violin when I was young . It was difficult just to just get the bow across the strings to even make a decent sounding tone. I rember having to put rosin on the bow. To get a decent vibrato was hard. And of course no frets like on a guitar to help you play a pitch. And I tried guitar for awhile but my hands hadn’t toughened up enough to the point where I could play without hurting. So it messed up my fingers so I couldn’t play piano without it hurting so I gave up my pursuit of guitar. Although the violin could do four note chords and portamento.  I gravitated toward the piano instead I had more ability on the piano. 
Fixed pitch and rhythmic oriented. Strings and hammers. I played hard drums and drums and marimba when I was a kid so various skills transfer. I even played clarinet too. I wanted to play many instruments but the piano is what I stuck with. I  mainly focused on jazz. I listened to bill evans, herbie Hancock, McCoy Tyler, chick corea,Keith jarret and others. I even met McCoy Tyler once and had him autograph an album. He was brilliant and very humble. Sadly he’s gone. Got into synths because of my interest in progressive rock and jazz fusion. The theremin is so out there I consider it an instrument from outer space. Oddly it’s been adopted into the classical world. It reminds me of a mixture between an opera singer and a violin. Take care why do you think it’s easier than a cello or violin? Thanks

Posted: 11/17/2022 7:36:53 AM

Joined: 8/11/2021

Why do you say you "need" CV and MIDI? I think you're unnecessarily adding complication to complication. Learning a new instrument is hard enough, before even thinking of a multi-instrument network setup.
My suggestion would be to start from the basics: get a cheap used theremin, try to learn some basic things and see where it takes you.

You can find several excellent youtube tutorials to start learning the basics (several yopics here about that).

As for the confusion between models, it's understandable because Moog itself wasn't very clear in naming them. The current Moog Etherwave Theremin is a new edition of the classic Moog design, which for decades has been the original Etherwave Standard.
In addition, there was the Etherwave plus which added a headphone out and CV outs.

Either of those would be a great beginner's (and not only beginner's) instrument. And if you don't like it, you can resell it at the same price you bought it without a big loss (which would be the case when buying new). The used market is your friend.

Posted: 11/17/2022 10:49:42 AM

Joined: 11/14/2022

I wanted cv and midi because I wanted to use it to control my synths that have cv and midi. Although I think I would be forced to use my sequential pro3 since it’s the only synth I have that has midi via usb even though it has regular 5 pin din midi in  out and thru. I thought the moog etherwave theremin only had midi via usb, if it even had midi at all wasn’t sure if it did. My understanding was that you could use the theremin to control certain parameters of a synth that had cv. Saw a moog theremini controlling a mother32 and also saw a moog etherwave theremin controlling a software synth and effects and a guitar.
I just wanted to control my synths but it seems I think I can only control my pro3 via MIDIUSB. It was hard to tell  how it was setup since it was presented so fast. But Daniel fisher used a theremini and a  moog etherwave theremin the 2022 one I believe.  Maybe I’m wrong and the moog etherwave theremin the 2022 one may not even have midivia usb. The one video I saw of the theremini was controlling the filter on the moog mother32.  I know the theremini has only one cv out. I thought you had to have at a minimum at least two cv outs to control pitch and volume while connecting it to a synth that has cv inputs and outs . I would think that there’s probably a few possibility s. I’m not sure about the connections because I don’t use cv just midi. I’ve had three synths connected before via midi and used the moog voyager as the master midi out to the sequential pro3 midi in and midi thru to a Yamaha an1x synths midi in. 
It’s best to not have a long connection of synths midied because of errors. Three is the most I’ve used in a chain. I just don’t really use cv at all.
I thought about miding up a theremin because I thought it would be much easier to control synths with the theremin then to learn how to play the theremin well. At least I could use the theremin as a controller. I just saw it done on utube and thought it was an interesting way to control synths. I would have to talk to someone that knows how to do that since there’s so much involved. You have to have all the right equipment equipped with the right ins  and outs . It’s probably not to hard but your a victim of what you don’t know and a little knowledge is dangerous. The more I watch videos of people that can really play the theremin I get intimidated and think maybe I should just use it as a controller instead at least once I understood everything that was involved then maybe I could utilize it in a way that would yield a musical result. Learning to play it would seem like a journey. Using it as a controller seems more feasible to me.
I just wish I understood it better. Thanks take care

Posted: 11/17/2022 1:17:41 PM

Joined: 8/11/2021

hhhmmmm.... I have difficulty following your logic.
First of all: most theremins are fully analog instruments. As such, they don't have MIDI, which by definition is digital (Musical Instrument Digital Interface).
some theremins are digital or have an analog-to-digital converter, and as such they can use MIDI.
To stick to Moog models, the Etherwaves (all models) do not have MIDI or USB. The Claravox and Theremini have it.

Second point: you say you are intimidated by the difficulty of learning the theremin...but then you want to use it to control other instruments, which IMPLIES playing the theremin. 

I thought it would be much easier to control synths with the theremin then to learn how to play the theremin well.

The difficulty would be exactly the same, since you would be... well, playing the theremin. The only difference would be that the resulting sound wouldn't be the theremin's internal output, but the sound of the controlled synth.

Unless you mean that you intend to use the theremin not as a musical instrument, but only as a continuous controller for special effects. Something like Mezerg does, just to mention some popular modern theremin user (note: user, not player).

In that case, apart from the theatrics which may be important if you do live shows, I would honestly choose ANY other method to control parameters.
Anything seems much easier, more practical and more controllable (not to mention cheap!) than buying a big expensive instrument that you don't know how to use, how to connect to your synths and why.
For example, something like the Expressive Etouchè is great, or a Roli board. But for 99.9% of the use cases I can think of, one or more control pedals will work perfectly...or you could even go so far as to use your fingers to turn some knobs! 

Posted: 11/17/2022 2:48:13 PM

Joined: 11/14/2022

I’ve seen thatEtouche on sonic state. I’m familiar  with the roliseaboard. I probably mean as a CC . I’m really a jazz piano player that uses synths. I got
My voyager in 2015 used. I really just solo on it. Just saw some utube videos using a theremin.I used to sample with a kurzweil k2000rs that had an analog 
To digital converter.  Can you use a roli controller with a voyager.? I thought you had to use that with a laptop running software apps. That’s a really interesting controller . It really moves into new territory and new and really expressive way to play a keyboard.  I don’t know all that is required with using the roli.
I know it was expensive when it came out. I use animoogz and Aparillo and factory on my ipadpro. I know I saw a moog theremin controlling a software synth so I guess that was as a CC. I don’t know all that much about midi and CC and Cv. I’m probably in over my head. I probably don’t make a lot of sense.
I just use midi in a simple application I know there’s a lot more you can do with midi then I do. I use to load in patches in my synth racks via system exclusive
But that was many years ago and I don’t have a desktop computer anymore.   I don’t have a DAW either. My knowledge base is more in jazz composition and jazz playing. I use synths because of thier ability to get different timbres. I have hardware samplers. Gear from the late 90s. I really like analog subtractive synthisis. I tried to start a studio but it didn’t take off. I have 24 tracks of adats an alesis master link and some Avalon pres and an AKG condenser microphone 
Some other studio gear. Near fields Mackies and even have a chopped C3 and C2 and 5 Leslie’s.  Years ago I had an OBXA and a sequential circuits pro1. Even had a Rhodes. My first synth was an arp. I have a korg arp odyssey. I’ve sold some of my sampling and programs to Waylon Jennings son shooter Jennings years ago. That was a long time ago. I met him on the internet. But things constantly change. Irember pro tools had come out Right after I got my adats. Everything is so different. Software synths have come along way and are really powerful now. I just prefer hardware synths since I’m more of a player than a programmer or studio savvy. I’m just old and old fashion I guess. But in retrospect I should have kept every analog synth I ever had. It just has the sound as far as I’m concerned. There’s so many options now. I probably should forget about theremins and focus on getting that sequential prophet5 rev 4. It’s more bread then a theremin. I just became intrigued with the theremin since I joined the moog forum. Thanks for all your informative advice. It’s appreciated 
Take care would be interested in hearing from you how you aproach music and what your direction might be thanks again for replying 

Posted: 11/17/2022 3:48:08 PM
Yngvox Moogsteen

From: The Middle

Joined: 9/23/2021

I think you will enjoy and learn Theremin more if you first enjoy the beauty of the sounds a theremin produces.  It is like a crazy expressive synthesizer.  I believe if you try one you will really have fun.  Look up videos of Thomas Grillo.   Very informative, entertaining, and inspirational.  He plays a lot of different Theremins in his videos.  He is also visually impaired.  I think you won’t be sorry if you get an etherwave.  Try the cv later if you want, but just play first.  A lot of cool sounds especially if you want to run into effects or external inputs of some synthesizers.
Have fun.  
Don’t be intimidated.
It’s no harder than any fret less instrument.  Personally I believe it easier. But different.  Very enjoyable to play. 
Theremins hold value like all instruments if you buy quality.  My Claravox has gone up $500 since I bought it.  I wish I could have bought a few  Etherwave Pro at ordinal price.
If it doesn’t strain your budget go for it.  

Posted: 11/17/2022 4:58:09 PM

Joined: 11/14/2022

I saw that Etherwave Pro and man it is expensive now. My moog voyager has gone up in price since I bought it used as well as that Minimoog reissue that came out in 2016 that was made only for a year. I know thier discontinued but people are gouging the price mostly on reverb. An orginal vintage modelD costs as much as my grand piano did new although it’s at least 40 years old but then again a modelD could be even older. I wish I had still had my obxa I bought for 500 dollars back in the 90s. That was a great polyphonic analog synth. I just have equity on the piano and keyboard instruments. I guess I just don’t want to sound bad on the theremin which seems very easy to do.  I saw jimmy page of Led Zeppelin using one on utube I think he used one on the song remains the same. I saw here on theremin world there’s a burns that has a copy of the one he used. He also used one on a whole lot of love. I just don’t know much about theremins although I love how they can sound like a violin, but I’m not naïve I know that takes some talent, persistent  practice and perseverance. I wonder how many people that started out on the theremin just end up quitting because it is so hard. The one thing that would be strange is that it’s not polyphonic and that’s where the piano has it in spades. I’m a better soloist though since I’ve been playing the Minimoog voyager. The synth is so different then the piano because the piano is so much about acquiring chops where as the synth is more about the sonic creation of sound and a synth action is so different than a piano action which is weighted. It’s easier to swing on a piano then it is on a synth action. Sone genres don’t use syncopation . Jazz and blues does.
The theremin seems to really be so close a relative to moog monophonic synths. It came first then modular then a smaller compact monophonic synth.
It seems like where electronic instruments began and expanded from. That’s why I have a curiosity about it. Appreciate your reply and all your insight
Take care

Posted: 11/18/2022 8:58:45 AM

Joined: 8/11/2021

If I can give a honest opinion, I think you're a bit in confusion because you like so much to accumulate gear. You listed an absolutely incredible amount of stuff that you own. Are you really playing all that gear?
You keep listing reasons for possible arcane uses of your eventual theremin, connecting it to other synths, controlling soft synths... everything except the most obvious thing: playing it. And you essentially said you're not interested in putting in the time needed to practice.
Honestly, my impression is that you have no idea what to do with it, but just want a shiny new toy and heard of this weird instrument. You even mention the Etherwave Pro, a long-discontinued, highly collectible, very expensive and top-of-the-line instrument that absolutely nobody suggested that you should get as a beginner's instrument. 
So...should you buy your first theremin? Well if you have the cash, why not? Go with it and try for yourself, maybe you will discover something new and exciting.

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