Whats a Terrapin ? Part 2

Posted: 10/7/2008 1:39:16 AM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

This is a continuation of an utterly hijacked thread from
Here (http://www.thereminworld.com/forum.asp?cmd=p&T=3566&F=480&p=3)

Please excuse the sillyness of this continuations title - it is 7am here, I have been up all night doing everything except what I should have been doing...
Posted: 10/7/2008 5:27:42 AM
Alexander

From: Bristol, United Kingdom

Joined: 12/30/2006

I've got your Turtle pun - right here. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38377000/jpg/_38377187_turtle_afp.jpg)
Posted: 10/7/2008 8:20:37 AM
Brian R

From: Somerville, MA

Joined: 10/7/2005

Fred, you're right about the unscientific nature of my "data"... though I'll just point out that, per my follow-up, the mapping wasn't entirely reliable. It IS true that extensive work earlier in the day can "set" my sense of pitch, such that later on I'll be able to pluck pitches out of the air reliably... but, for now, that effect seems to last only a few hours, at most... so that the invariant pitches are the exception, rather than the rule.

You don't need to know anything about the pieces of music I was citing... indeed, while recoiling in horror at the lengths of those posts, I had half a mind to go back and edit out the specific titles... all that matters in this context is the recency of exposure.

Last, on the topic of rock and such: music-producer-turned-neuroscientist Daniel Levitin ([i]This is your brain on music[/i]) found that most people retain an extraordinarily accurate memory of both pitch and tempo of popular songs. So there really is hope for all of us...
Posted: 10/7/2008 8:22:48 AM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

There are people who search their starting tone loudly without shame (in the following video at about 1:40 minutes...):

http://www.cslevine.com/2003/video_martinu.htm

And Mr. Levine seems to be a so called professional... :rolleyes:

So why bother about +/- some halftones...
Posted: 10/7/2008 6:41:52 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

OOOuchhhhh... That was just GRUESOME! He is certainly not promoting the Theremin.. in fact .. I fear he may be THE ANTItheremin!!!

LOL - That turtle! ... ;)

BUT.. I NOTICE AN ERROR!! A)The Turtle is 'pitched' at the wrong angle.. B) It is too big to be a true Terrapin!

Brian - I dont disagree in any way with your ideas on memory with regard to pitch.. I also think that, if the distance -> pitch relationship of your Theremin is always constant, even after turning it off and back on later, or moving it, etc, then it is likely that one could have this pitch -> distance relationship almost 'hard wired' into your brain, and getting the first note right would almost be as easy as hitting the right note on a keyboard first time.

I have a 'practical' rather than just a theoretical interest in these questions.. Whilst working on Epsilon, I am also thinking about the Theremin I want to produce.. work on Epsilons Auto-calibration routines got me wondering about what the effect (on playing) would be if my Theremin ALWAYS kept the pitch -> distance relationship set up by the player..

IF the players memory was able (after enough time) to retain this 'mapping' I think an instrument like this would improve performance, particularly at the start, and when solos become accompanied by other instruments - However - Due to the nature of the Theremin, and the variable environment, giving my Theremin this 'constancy' would be difficult - it would involve incorperation of some non-capacitance based distance detection scheme.. So this is one of these ideas I am exploring well in advance of deciding either way.
Posted: 10/7/2008 7:40:33 PM
Brian R

From: Somerville, MA

Joined: 10/7/2005

Fred, I should apologize for not specifying earlier: When I said I "nailed" those remembered pitches, that was by singing them, [i]not[/i] by playing them on the theremin!

Yes, you're right about the consistent-theremin-spacing principle, in theory... but in my case, in practice, those distances aren't as reliable as what I can do with my vocal cords. F'rinstance, something such as the Queen of the Night's famous aria "Hell's Revenge" (from Mozart's [i]Magic Flute[/i]) is mostly diatonic, with a smidgeon of chromatic elaboration.

I can sing it in tune (well, an octave or two lower than written), but when I try it on theremin, I drift, by as much as a semitone.
Posted: 10/8/2008 1:14:29 AM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

Thanks Brian.. I get the feeling that perhaps a 'locked tight' pitch <-> distance relationship may be going too far - even for the very best possible Theremin.. The cost of adding an optical or ultrasonic distance measuring aparatus, and doing this in a way which was reliable and consistant, and incorperating all the extra hardware/processing power/software to implement it well would probably put the instrument well outside the range of affordability -

But it has been a most interesting discussion - I am extremely weak on musical theory, and my sugestions about possible pitch memory mechanisms are purely speculative / guesswork - I have learned some things which may well prove to be extremely important both for Epsilon and for my Theremin designs, so once again, thank you for your input..
Posted: 10/8/2008 2:27:58 PM
omhoge

From: New York, NY

Joined: 2/13/2005

Well, hummm,
There's some interesting stuff in these posts.

Poor turtle... to go through all that trouble to grow a pitch antenna only to find itself in a world full of aether critics, boy can we all relate.

Basic scales and intervals for a warm up always help my accuracy but
I find my playing usually makes my tortoise run around and often poop, honestly, no matter how accurate my pitch is, at least it keeps him regular.

Oh right, "Suggestion Box", who knew it'd get so reptilian... which, by the way,
I did complete the SQL updates on the page that started all this. Hope it makes y'all happy as a turtle in warm water.

yup, hijacked, but none the less,
thanks everyone.
Posted: 10/8/2008 8:31:18 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

"Oh right, "Suggestion Box", who knew it'd get so reptilian"

- Sorry Omhoge.. If I had engaged my brain I would have continued in another forum... I will try to remember to do this next time I hijack a thread! ... Perhaps you could add a "hijacked Threads" Forum! ;))

... And, in so saying, FredM redeemed himself by bringing the thread back to the remit of "Suggestion Box".
Posted: 10/8/2008 10:16:23 PM
Brian R

From: Somerville, MA

Joined: 10/7/2005

[i]Perhaps you could add a "hijacked Threads" Forum! ;))[/i]

OMG! ROTFL! I love this idea more than life itself...

...but only if the threads [i]start[/i] in that forum, and then migrate elsewhere.


:-)

(standard emoticon)


c___|

(first stab* at termenicon)


*surely there's a better way to render the volume loop?

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