...delay (ctd.)...

Posted: 5/28/2008 6:31:18 AM

From: Germany, near Munich

Joined: 11/20/2007

Gordon says: [i]fairplay - and this is simpler than your analogue set-up?[/i]

...who said 'simple' is the goal? ;o) - I'd replace simple with 'lightweight' (uh, 'lighter weight'?)

No, seriously, this is - in my case - not about simple, but about fun, play-factor, 'audible-refreshments' and experimentation and perhaps [b]mobility[/b]...

...so, yes, in some way I do not see a simpler solution than the Lemur to move my sounds through my sound-space (eg. sound 'a' from front-left to back-right while at the same time moving sound 'b' in the opposite direction and sound 'c' against them both), all at the same time and even with visual feedback...

...this setup even allows me to have one machine trigger the other which then triggers the effects...so, for example in a live-improvisation situation, when it just takes a little longer to get to some predefined phrase with some pre-configured effects you can have the Lemur trigger the pre-programmed sequence on the Octopus only at the exact time it fits this performance...

...now for the small print: the above is all theory. I do experiment with this, but have never actually used it in a 'performance' or live-situation...I just imagine this could be real fun for everybody involved...


PS: just found the german dealer for the Echolution...pfffh...429 Euros is quite a heafty price-tag, not? How does it sound?
Posted: 5/28/2008 5:17:45 PM

From: Germany, near Munich

Joined: 11/20/2007

...regarding the 'analogue-setup'; here is a - quite interesting - message copied from the A-100 (Doepfer modular synth) list posted by Florian Anwander (http://fa.utfs.org/), a well known author of books about synthesizers, in a thread about using the A-100 as effects-system:


there were already some suggestions. So let me add my 2 ct's.

The first remark: the A-100 won't give you a guitar-synth. It will be a
very complex effect processor, but not a synth!

Now lets list the best effects you can do with an A-100 on a guitar
- Filtering: beginning with the luxury version of an auto-wah, up to the
simulation of other bodies with highly resonating filter banks.
- Delay based processing: from standard chorus/flanger to tuned
resonating delays.
- Classic Distortion: classic distortion is mostly done better with
classical guitar efx, but there are some auto-dynamic distortion things,
which cannot be done with the guitar stom boxes - e.g. Clean start of
the sound and the sustain fades over to a distortion.
- other types of distortion, like ringmodulation, stepped audio by
clocked s&h, Bit crushing, and others; all of these again dynamic
- Dynamic treatment: a modular system can be used as a very complex
dynamic processor (in sense of a compressor, sustainer, whatever...).
Typical ist frequency split band dynamics or time delayed dynamics.

The core of every patch will be the envelope follower A-119.
Additionally I suggest a slew limiter A-170 which can be used as a
second more flexible envelope follower. Also I recommend to add some in
and outputs to the A-119 (the modification is described in my book, but
I think I will put the infos to the files section.

for the listed functions I recommend the following modules:

Filters: A-121 or A-107 or A-101-1 - yes no moog or what ever filter!
You will need a multimode filter with highpasss, bandpass lowpass.
Soundwise I'd prefer the vactrol based 101-1, but the curtis chip based
121 and 107 are nice too.
Triple vc resonance filter A-127 or Trautoniumfilter A-104 (the 104 can
be changed only by truning the knowbs, while the A-127 is voltage
controlled, which means you can use it with a sweller pedal).

Delay: A-182-1 with 256 or 512 stages.

Classic distortion:
A-136. This one is the recommended for guitar (for synths the A-137
would be better).

Dynamic processing and all time/envelope based changes:
At least two linear VCAs with offset (required for compressor, ducker,
sustainer,...) either A-130 or A-132-3. Also for swell pedal control.
A-175 Dual voltage inverter.
A-138-D FX-Insert (and manual crossfader).
A-134-2 VC crossfader (crossfader for swell pedal control).
A-140 classic ADSR Envelope
any LFO out of A-143-3, A-144, A-145, A-146; where the quad LFO has more
LFOs but less functions.
A-148 S&H (can be used for stepped audio too)
A-138a linear Mixer for CVs but works also for audio.

other types of distortion
A-114 Ringmodulator
A-126 Frequency shifter
A-167 Analog Comparator (can be used as crude distortion with pulsewidth
Instead of the A-114 and A-126 you might have a look for an Alesis
Bitrman, is also great for this kind of effects.

So my basic setup would be:

A-119 Input
A-138a Mixer
A-101-1 Filter
A-182-1 Delay
A-136 Distortion
A-132-3 VCA
A-138-D Efx-Insert
A-175 Voltage inverter
A-140 Envelope
A-144 LFO

If you still have money then add:
A-170 Slewlimiter
A-127 resonant filter
A-148 S&H
A-34-2 VC-crossfader
A-114 Ringmodulator
A-126 Frequency shifter
A-167 Comparator

Best regards, Florian[/i]
Posted: 5/28/2008 10:07:59 PM

From: Toledo, Ohio United States of America

Joined: 2/22/2006

I can not wait for the aweful songs you will make with that Scumulating Ring Modulator!
Oooh! I have the shivers!
Good Luck!

Posted: 5/29/2008 5:22:34 AM

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

[i]PS: just found the german dealer for the Echolution...pfffh...429 Euros is quite a heafty price-tag, not? How does it sound?[/i]

That's the 429 Euro question, isn't it. Will it become an indispensable part of your set-up or eBay fodder? And, if the latter, will it retain its value on resale? Judging by the range of opinions voiced about just about every musical item in user reviews on Harmony Central and similar, and the busy trade in music gear on eBay this is a question that every musician faces.

How will I like Brian's pedal? That remains to be seen, but all the indications are good, and, if it's really not for me then I know they move on eBay. So in the unlikely event that I don't like it, it won't be a total vistaster. :-)

(Incidentally, Teslatheremin, I currently imagine it as the inverse of my PS5 pitch shifter, which creates a parallel note at a fixed interval ("="), variable with the pedal, whereas in ring-mod mode the Mold Spore creates a second note an equal and opposite distance from a fixed note ("><") variable with the pedal.)
Posted: 5/29/2008 1:15:19 PM
Goat Punishment

From: Minnesota

Joined: 5/19/2008

Thanks everyone! I got my B3 yesterday, so far so good. I've been playing melodies and some things. I imagine it'll take a while for me to feel comfortable playing it on stage, but I feel like I'm on my way.

And in regards to my name: I'm sure there are less than appropriate connotations it has, but I always liked it (And consequentally use it as my name on all of the message boards I post at) because it was the secret-second name of a popular alt-rock/semi-indie band to play shows under while at the height of their popularity. I won't say who, but I will say that this band is still pretty popular these days!
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:17:04 AM

From: Germany, near Munich

Joined: 11/20/2007

...and now for the 1099 euro (849 GBP ;o) question:

...has anyone made any experience with the Fulltone Tube Tape Echo (http://www.fulltone.com/tte.asp), perhaps even in combination with a theremin?

...this thing has great reviews (eg. on Harmony Central) (http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Effects/product/Fulltone/Tube+Tape+Echo/10/1), and is almost not available...

PS: found a link to a video also: Fulltone TTE - tube tape echo (http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=TCCyGFffml8)
Posted: 5/30/2008 6:00:14 PM

From: Toledo, Ohio United States of America

Joined: 2/22/2006

Gordon: Ha! How else would the 'Snarling Dog' be used?! I like methodical madmen and their noise. [;}

Fairplay: I notice that the Fulltone web-site for the TTE never mentions the Roland Tape Echoes which were vastly superior to the EchoPlex, and became the favorite of guitarists all over the planet during the 1970's and 1980's. I bet you could pick up a Roland on UK or USA Ebay for alot less money and get close to the same results. Roland still sells the tape cartridges, the last time I checked. A tape echo with tubes? Baaa! It is not worth the signal degradation in an effects chain. But, amplification with tubes is another matter.

Good Luck!

Posted: 5/30/2008 6:28:46 PM

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

I was thinking about that.

Watch out for "The Singing Dalek."

view full size (http://a846.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/3/l_0185b6c348221866a843aa36c47cdcc5.jpg)

"Somewhere over the rainbow
skies are blue
and the Daleks are waiting
there to [i]exterminate[/i] you!"
Posted: 5/31/2008 2:40:40 AM

From: Germany, near Munich

Joined: 11/20/2007

[i]Fulltone web-site for the TTE never mentions the Roland Tape Echoes[/i]

...there is a local offer for an Roland Space Echo RE-201 for 400 euros, but those are 'old' machines, arent they? A TTE would be brand-new, with warranty and service...

...there is one direct comparison of the TTE and the RE-201 on YouTube, and you are right, it is very difficult to hear a difference; but I read reviews saying that the TTE has a much warmer and 'fuller' sound...

[i]A tape echo with tubes? Baaa! It is not worth the signal degradation in an effects chain.[/i]

That is one of the interesting questions; I can only judge from the YouTube-videos, but from those my impression is that the Tube Tape does make a difference...

...in a way that might support a theremins original voice nicely.
Posted: 6/6/2008 4:23:05 AM

From: Germany, near Munich

Joined: 11/20/2007

...not a delay (echo), but interesting - software - loopers:

SooperLooper (http://www.essej.net/sooperlooper/index.html)

...and in combination with - for example - Ableton Live:

controlAid (http://www.charlie-roberts.com/controlAid)

...uurgh, and I dont have time to [i]play[/i]...

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