Moog Theremini!

"Maybe not as a traditional theremin right now, but I've heard street musicians do amazing things with just two sticks. As a composer the thing still interests me. " - Rich

Oh yes! .. I grew up in South Africa and a major influence on my musical life was from impoverished musicians who made their instruments out of salvaged rubbish - hub caps, nail pianos, tea-chest basses - whatever.

Perhaps its this influence which drives me to be so condemnatory about the theremini.. I have seen people make playable innovative instruments from junk .. perhaps it galls me to see an unplayable unimaginative instrument made from high-end modern electronic components.

But you are right - in the hands of a skilled and determined musician almost anything can be bent to make music - and this must apply to the theremini also.

Fred.

"Everyone uses pitch correction now for production."  - rkram53

The Theremini variable pitch quantization is real-time.  Is it possible to use Waves Tune or Autotune in real-time so that you can hear the result while you are playing?  If so, I'd be very interested in your comparison of the experience to the Theremini quantization (and of course to playing it au naturele).

Dewster,

Antares do a  plugin (VST etc) which enables live autotune - the UM can be downloaded here and is quite informative.

I suspect that a DSP plug-in with low latency, developed specifically for vocals, could be useful with a theremin.. I suspect that if the theremini had a good front-end (linear + low latency) then with better processing (whether on the audio or at the sound generator) the story would be completely different.

But the plug-in sells at $250 and one needs a DAW and PC to use it - it certainly wouldn't be fair to expect the theremini to compete on this aspect..

IMO, the problem is that Moog put all their attention on autotune which they never got right (and probably  couldn't be expected to get right) and never paid any attention to the theremin, which they should have got right (or at least usable) but  screwed up completely - So they never got anything even nearly right.

Oh - that's unfair! - they got the most important thing right - they got a toy which sells to the undiscerning  wanna-be's .

Fred.

"Antares do a  plugin (VST etc) which enables live autotune - the UM can be downloaded here and is quite informative."  - FredM

Thanks!  Nice manual, just the facts without an overload of hype.  Too bad it needs an iLoc and a host just to give it a test run.

"...they got the most important thing right - they got a toy which sells to the undiscerning  wanna-be's."

There's no good reason the Theremini couldn't have catered to all crowds.  When products seem intentionally hobbled I suspect it is often the case that they have done so in order to reduce competition among internal product lines.  The rest of the time poor products can likely be chalked up to ineptitude, laziness, etc. which IMO is the case for the Theremini front-end.

This kind of thing in general drives me a little crazy and is an aspect of modern life I find difficult to adapt to.   Whenever I make the huge mistake of renting a recent SF movie from the local red box (where movies go to die and 99% were crap in the first place - don't believe the high IMDb rating) I'm struck by how many times I'm invariably yanked out of the viewing experience by stupid science.  Most often these gaffes could be easily corrected with no harm the plot by simply running the script by someone who took 11th grade physics.  But no, Hollywood invests ~$1 billion in a vehicle that gets no vetting by those of us who would like our SF to be a bit more grounded in reality, thus alienating a large chunk of their target audience.  I'm just flabbergasted at how slack the movie industry is, particularly when there is big money being spent and big money to be made. 

People running stuff should be smarter than this, or at least more on top of things. 

"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up."  - Lily Tomlin

COMPLETELY OT:

Most often these gaffes could be easily corrected with no harm the plot by simply running the script by someone who took 11th grade physics." - Dewster

LOL ;-) ... Oh, so true! ... But what gets me is how even the most astoundingly bad science, even when at the core of the movie, is just overlooked by the mindless masses - or they aren't bothered by it. How to make yourself unpopular? just mention the bad / impossible "science" on which the whole plot depends ! "Its just a movie!" - "You always spoil things! - Why dont you just let the children and me enjoy it without always ripping everything apart afterwards!?"

My reasons - that I think the children are too young to be watching this shit, and as I cannot prevent this because she insists they can, at least I want them to understand that its bullshit! - Well, that doesn't score any points either!

Lets see if I can think of one - AI machines enslave humans to use their biological functions as a heat/energy source ....

" a ravaged wasteland where most of humanity have been captured by a race of machines that live off of the humans' body heat and electrochemical energy and who imprison their minds within an artificial reality known as the Matrix."

Fred.

Reply to posting below:

Categorized under "things that make you fall off the couch and pause the DVD for a 20 minute rant"." - Dewster

Actually, I couldn't do that.. But at that point decided the film wouldn't be worth watching, so left and went back to my lab.. When this bloody film became a "sensation" I was "forced" to view it.. Its now ascended to cult status - dark, grimy, amoral crap full of the blend of bullshit science and pseudo-spirituality which is programming this generation (or at least those in our world where there's money and time available to waste on "escapist" crap).

God help them.. God help us!

"AI machines enslave humans to use their biological functions as a heat/energy source"  - FredM

Categorized under "things that make you fall off the couch and pause the DVD for a 20 minute rant".

I mean, there's suspension of disbelief, and there's turning off your brain to watch some mindless explosions and fistfights.  But even rotting in the grave I don't think I could possibly experience this stuff and not be gobsmacked.

Theremini is a "noise toy".

Just had a visit from a Moog Music rep here in my studio yesterday. While I'm ever so appreciative of Moog Music's effort to reach out to me in person, the three hours I spent working with the Theremini has turned up some serious issues with this device.

First, for those of us in the U.S. who get a theremini, you'll have to order a 3/8 to 5/8 stand adapter. Not a big deal, really.

The major issue with Theremini is that it's linearity is highly non-linear. It's progressively non-linear with notes nearest the rod being extremely closed together, and the lowest octave taking up half the room.

Even with quantization on, "I" was unable to play the Star Trek theme even remotely recognizably.

The device is not at all stable. Each time I attempted a simple arpeggio, I'd get half way through, and the device would mod-hop, and drift out of tune, up and down. I believe the instability is caused by the case being made of thin plastic, and the power cord not being properly grounded, even though the IEC portion of the power has a ground.

The appearance of the device says "CHEAP" to me. If I ever buy a Theremin, and only after the linearity problem is cracked, I fully intend to gut the device, and move it's circuitry into a proper wooden cabinet.

I don't like the fact you can't remove the volume loop. The small volume loop is easy to snag if you're trying to play staccatos.

The setup menu is a nightmare. A sight impaired user can not use this device, even with a magnifier, because the setup requires you to be able to see when the screen tells you to go on to the next phase of setup. I found it quite annoying to have the device howling during the setup of the pitch side. You can mute it with a cable over the volume loop fortunately, but you still have to unmute in order to hear what the device is doing. You have to stand four feet away at one point of setup, then you have to stand at arm's length, and then you have to hold your pitch hand near the rod to set the high end notes. The screen is so tiny, I was unable to setup, and calibrate the device. I had to have the rep do it.

The pitch rod is only about 14, to 15 inches long, which contributes to the serious non-linearity issue. Since I had the opportunity to have the theremini in my studio, I realized that the Theremini's rod is 3/8" in diameter, and just slips into the device. So, I grabbed the rod from my Etherwave Pro, and slipped it into the Theremini. The linearity was vastly improved, bringing Theremini from just being a noise tow, to at least being an entry-introductory theremin. The linearity was still not quite at a quality that a tune could be played reliably, however.

With the original rod in, there were only about five octaves, but only four could sort of be accessed. After the Etherwave pro's rod was in, we were able to get a little more than seven octaves with a range approaching that of an ESPE01 enhanced Etherwave. At that point the rep told me this would be the first issue Moog Music will address when he gets back to Moog Music. By the way, Theremini uses a solid aluminum rod. The Etherwave Pro's rod is hollow, and nearly 19 inches long.

Interestingly, the power supply brick has a heavy duty IEC cord running from the brick to the wall plug, but from the brick to the Theremini is a thin two wire cord which certainly won't hold up to too many uses.

The sound presets are pretty cool, and we had some fun playing around with them, but that quickly wore off.

I did notice the Theremini's quantization mode is easy enough to cancel. You just rotate the quantizing knob to right, and left quickly, and you're out of quantizing mode. All 32 presets could be used with continuous glissando.

I was disappointed there was only one theremin tone, and it sounded rather bland. I suggested there be at least half a dozen or more theremin tones to select from, and the rep seemed quite receptive to that.

When asked by the rep if I'd recommend the Theremini to my students, I had to respond with a resounding "NO".

I went on to specify that I would not even recommend the device to even the casual enthusiast because after a while, it's going to become readily apparent one will not be able to play the device musically at all in it's current condition.

You'll note I don't call Theremini an instrument. That's because it's not an instrument. It's an effects device at point. Nothing more.

Thomas, I have known you for a while now ~ and you are such a positive kind of person, you try to see good things in everyone and everything. But your review/opinion of the Theremini leaves much less to be desired.

... So yeah. I'll stick to the theremins that I love and know!

"First, for those of us in the U.S. who get a theremini, you'll have to order a 3/8 to 5/8 stand adapter. Not a big deal, really."  - Thomas Grillo

It's a PITA.

"The major issue with Theremini is that it's linearity is highly non-linear. It's progressively non-linear with notes nearest the rod being extremely closed together, and the lowest octave taking up half the room."

You can improve this quite a bit by performing the "hand close to the pitch antenna" cal with your hand ~5" away from the antenna, and also perhaps the "hand far from the pitch antenna" farther away than the farthest playing position.  The main problem with this is it cuts into the playable region <~5" from the antenna (where the pitch will remain constant).  The manual says: "Press the SETUP button and place your hand very close to the Pitch antenna, but without touching it" which is unfortunate as this severely aggravates linearity.

"The device is not at all stable. Each time I attempted a simple arpeggio, I'd get half way through, and the device would mod-hop, and drift out of tune, up and down. I believe the instability is caused by the case being made of thin plastic, and the power cord not being properly grounded, even though the IEC portion of the power has a ground."

I confirmed that AC ground indeed makes it to the DC side of the power brick.  I'm kind of surprised the unit you tested was so unstable, mine can burble and drift a bit but I haven't caught it actually jumping around or entering other frequency modes.

"I grabbed the rod from my Etherwave Pro, and slipped it into the Theremini. The linearity was vastly improved, bringing Theremini from just being a noise tow, to at least being an entry-introductory theremin. The linearity was still not quite at a quality that a tune could be played reliably, however.

With the original rod in, there were only about five octaves, but only four could sort of be accessed. After the Etherwave pro's rod was in, we were able to get a little more than seven octaves with a range approaching that of an ESPE01 enhanced Etherwave. At that point the rep told me this would be the first issue Moog Music will address when he gets back to Moog Music. By the way, Theremini uses a solid aluminum rod. The Etherwave Pro's rod is hollow, and nearly 19 inches long."

I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that what happened here is the extra capacitance of the longer rod positively influenced the current calibration, and therefore the linearity, and so it might not be the case that a longer rod is necessary for better operation.  It would surprise me if the material (steel, Al) or solid/hollow were to affect anything substantially.  But I'll check this out.

"I found it quite annoying to have the device howling during the setup of the pitch side."

That's a valid complaint, and one I hadn't thought of.

"Theremini is a "noise toy"... When asked by the rep if I'd recommend the Theremini to my students, I had to respond with a resounding "NO".

But tell us what you really mean!  ;-)

@Amethyste: Yeh, you're far better off with the theremins in your collection. :)

@dewster: If Moog Music fixes their linearlity, and I ever do get a Theremini, I'll certainly try your setup method. However, I won't be using the Theremini in public. It'll likely only be used as an in-studio device for effects, mostly.

Yes, there was a very noticeable difference between the original pitch rod, and the Etherwave Pro's rod being used.

Oh, I was able to demo the ESPE01 enhanced Etherwave Standard in all her glory to the rep. He was amazed, and even asked him self why Moog Music was not licensing that module all this time. :)