Kit choice

Hi everyone... I'm enjoying reading here, but thought I'd ask for advice while I aimlessly browse the threads and info...

So, I'm thinking I need to get a theremin kit. Right now its looking like an etherwave plus, or theremax, and I'm not totally sure wich would be ideal, and how to make the decision. (also, if ther's anything else in a resonable- like $500 or less- range, I'm open to suggestions)

Less cost is obviously good, but if the etherwave has features that will be significantly more usefull for me, thats not an issue...

What I want is:
1) the stereotypical sine-y theremin tone
2) a decent square-ish wave for synthy applications
3) tweakability... It'll probably be my only theremin for a while, and I understand how much there is to be said for simplicity, but I'm proetty content leaving knobs alone most of the time and tweaking when its called for...

I think that the biggest thing in the feature lists is the waveshape style functions... I'd be thrilled if anyone wante to share an experience, or a preference between the etherwave and theremax's waveshaping capabilities...

Comments on playability/linearity/general preference are REALLY welcome as well... I'm pretty torn as it is. I have good experiences with moog generally, but the form of the PAiA enclosure appeals to me more (I know... thats rediculous, its about the sound...) and the PAiA seems more open to playing with the circuit (although that could be my limited electronics knowledge speaking)...

CV options are nice, and while I like the solidly outlined -2.5 to 4.5 and 0 to 10V layout of the moog, the plethora of front panel options on the PAiA seem to call out for customization too me. Either way, I could see myself playing with building footswitches, effects, and interesting things like that, so room to incorporate add ons later might be a plus.

Thanks for any thoughts or comments, I appreciate anyone taking the time to read what's probably a super redundant new guy post.

Welcome to Theremin World, Mills.

I cannot speak for the theremax, as I do not have one, but I understand that it is a significant build, and best suited to a person with experience of building and debugging complex circuits. There are various modifications documented in the TW archives which help to turn it into a more playable instrument, but the general opinion is that the etherwave is a better instrument.

You will find snapshots of my etherwave's waveforms at various settings of the waveform and brightness knobs (extreme right, centre, extreme left) here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8666613@N04/2199492524/sizes/o/).

The form of the enclosure is irrelevant. You can rehouse the etherwave circuitry, as noted in Moog's etherwave FAQ here (http://www.moogmusic.com/faq/?content_id=29&cat_id=4). There are some wonderful examples around. (*)

If you are interested in applying effects to the basic theremin sound I invite you to visit my youTube channel, here (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=D7884E47B7653960), as I play exclusively with effects. I suggest - Moths Are Made Of Dust (just a delay), Butterflies Of Vertigo (delay plus Pitch Shifter with expression pedal) Point Of Collapse (ping-pong delay feeding both channels of Ring-Mod) and Dance Of The Flower Pot Men (Wah pedal.) With the exception of the backing track for Flower Pot Men and the faux stereo on Collapse the only post-production effects applied are a touch of reverb and a bit of EQ.





(*) I am thinking of one in particular done in fibreglass by a chap that makes props for Hollywood movies. It's got a real Jetsons look about it. If anyone can provide a link or recall his name I would be grateful.

Gordon>>
I wonder if this clear perspex theremin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrMrtodJnkk&feature=channel_page) is the one you're thinking of. This is what sprung to mind - however, it's a theramax not an Etherwave, so maybe you have a different one in mind.

I also like this wooden rehousing (http://www.flickr.com/photos/97827539@N00/) of an Etherwave.

Thanks for the suggestions and links!

I'll keep looking at the archives here to get an idea about mods/etc. I'm not going to claim to be an expert, but I've built some electronic circuits and thought this would be a decent step into the more complex. I actually kind of enjoy debugging and don't mind if there's some setbacks and frustration in a build... it usualy just makes me learn more.

Those rehoused ones are definately cool, but I don't really have the facilities for much in the way of construction or woodworking right now... so in the short term, the enclosure style is a tertiary consideration. I'd rather go with a better instrument that looks bad than a pretty one thats not playable, but I do find that aesthetics influence my attatchment or connection with an instrument. Its silly, but I'm not going to deny that its there... (and, in this case, I'd assumed that both were going to be in a simillar ballpark of quality with different features... if I'm wrong about that then aesthetics don't really play into it at all) Ideally, I had wanted to design and build the enclosure, but trying to be realistic, I know its not going to happen for a few years.

Thanks for the link to the youtube channel, I'll be listening there in the next few days... is that mostly done on your etherwave or do you have another model or two that you use?

[i]"What I want is:
1) the stereotypical sine-y theremin tone
2) a decent square-ish wave for synthy applications
3) tweakability... It'll probably be my only theremin for a while, and I understand how much there is to be said for simplicity, but I'm proetty content leaving knobs alone most of the time and tweaking when its called for...

I think that the biggest thing in the feature lists is the waveshape style functions... "[/i]

The Theremax is an ideal match for your listed priorities.

The out-of-the-box waveform ranges from an almost pure sine wave to a square wave and it is very tweakable.

It's playability can be improved with a better antenna if you are into tonal/traditional playing.

The Etherwaves have a "brassyer" sound. You can get a clear (sinusoidal) sound by rolling it off above 7000hz.

Hope this helps.

[i]-- Kevin[/i]

[i]is that mostly done on your etherwave or do you have another model or two that you use[/i]

Most of the pieces were on an etherwave, with the exception of Void Ship, which was played on a Kees Enkelaar theremin (no longer in production) and Kraken which was played on a Gakken Theremin Mini and heavily treated in post-production.


@Thereminstrel. No, not that one. The one I am thinking of was mentioned on levnet ages ago and I omitted to bookmark the page. I recall the page was constructed entirely from jpegs, so unlikely to show up on search engines.

[update] Ha! Found it. It's Ed Sussman's theremin (http://www.pureimaginationco.com/theremin.html), as heard in Mars Attacks! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dG7ZFhZzKM&fmt=18) [/update]

So, in reading a little more, it looks like the theremax blends a sine-ish output with a square wave produced by a schmitt trigger to get its tonal variety...

Would I be way out of line in thinking that it would be relatively straight forward to alter an etherwave to have a similar sine/square control, and probably even retain the option of the moog's "signature" sound?

Or have better minds than mine already tackled this, and I'm revisting old technical discussions that don't really work out in reality?

well with the CV outs on the etherwave plus, you can (admittedly after making a severe dent in your wallet) use a moog freqbox to mix in any amount of triangle, saw, square, pulse, etc. at the same pitch, or one or two octaves up or down. there is something going on with the pitch/CV response i am finding that, if you mix the etherwave and the freqbox oscillators at the same pitch, then at certain extremes of your range you will always be stuck with a bit of a beat frequency as the tracking needs a tiny bit of amplification or attenuation or something. but if you set the two an octave up or down, this is not really noticeable.

of course, now that i have sorted this out, i should probably return to the more important task of actually learning how to play with decent intonation, hhahaha, sigh...

The mod you describe certainly can be done to the Etherwave standard - there is a very straighforward design analysis of the circuit that is included with the Etherwave. Of course, to make such a change requires an understanding of electronic theory.

I'm not sure that one will be able to get a more sine-y tone from the etherwave. While the oscillators are a very good and stable design, the mixer section and the post-mixer sound processing are rather poor.

Improving that would mean disconnecting all circuit parts out of the oscillators and redesign that with pre-mixer waveshaping, a symmetrical balanced mixer or linear analog multiplier and post-mixer waveshaping. Since the original volume control is part of the "waveshaping by distorting" circuit, it should also be redesigned...