Lev Termen did not create the theremin. . .

[i]Jeff S said:

Traditional instruments are acoustic-mechanical devices that have a defined tone and timbre that has been established over many decades, if not centuries. To radically alter their design and/or materials would essentially create a different instrument.[/i]

There are so many natural phenomenons of physics captured within the theremin concept it must be concluded the theremin is a musical instrument which was destined to exist from the beginning, Lev Sergeyevich Termen was chosen to make this divine discovery and this may be why there is something magical about the theremin for so many!

The spirit of the theremin along with Lev’s research should be viewed in the light of old school basic electronic principles, something an older generation once dabbled in as a hobby and a new generation of young explorers, with technical creativity, are beginning to rediscover. In Lev’s later years (circa 1980’s) he still had a fascination and unfulfilled anticipation of bringing about a polyphonic version of his instrument using a device held in his volume hand. This is one of many areas that technical researchers need to study further.

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[i]"I became interested in bringing about progress in music, so that there would be more musical resources. I was not satisfied with the mechanical instruments in existence, of which there were many. They were all built using elementary principles and were not physically well done. I was interested in making a different kind of instrument. And I wanted, of course, to make an apparatus that would be controlled in space, exploiting electrical fields, and that would use little energy. Therefore I used electronic technology to create a musical instrument that would provide greater resources.... "

Lev Sergeyevich Termen[/i]

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Christopher
RS Theremin
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[i]There are so many natural phenomenons of physics captured within the theremin concept it must be concluded the theremin is a musical instrument which was destined to exist from the beginning[/i]

I'm not so sure. All the jigsaw pieces were there, but it takes a smart person to put them together so neatly to make a thing which, with hindsight, seems obvious.

The obvious is very often the hardest thing to spot. How many times in your life have you slapped your forehead and said "Now that you point it out, it's obvious. How could I not have seen it before?"

You know that there have been entire civilisations who knew full well about circles, but never made the jump from circle to wheel.

(In fact, I suspect that if benevolent space aliens ever make contact, they won't bring gifts of advanced technology. They'll just say - "Gee, guys, why don't you just [[i]something-that-will-seem-completely-obvious-once-they-have-said-it[/i]]." and everyone in the world will slap their foreheads together and say "Gosh-darn it! How could we not have seen that before?")

[i]"the theremin is a musical instrument which was destined to exist from the beginning"[/i]

I agree.. but not in the way hinted at by [i]"Lev Sergeyevich Termen was chosen to make this divine discovery"[/i] - I doubt that there is any 'force' doing 'choosing' or 'directing' human affairs. (but that is a seperate O.T. debate which always goes nowhere.. :-)

I think it was inevitable as electronics and (particularly) radio technology evolved, the production of audio as a result of heterodyning would be seen.. And inevitable that some experimenter would, on finding audio frequency being played which related to their proximity, try to play a tune. Anyone who has messed about with simple radio circuits is likely to have come across this - unstable circuits of many kind produce audio as a concequence of field (particularly capacitive) interaction.

It is possible (likely?) that the first few times these interactions were observed, they were bothersome - the experimenter had not set out to make these noises, was probably trying to do something else, and focussed their attention to getting rid of the 'problem'... But it is inevitable (I think) that someone was going to think [i] (after exploring the possibility of playing simple tunes or making sounds which, at that time, had never been heard before)[/i] about making an instrument based on this principle - and THEN set about deliberately designing such an instrument.

Lev Termen therefore did create the Theremin.. But if he hadn't, I am sure someone else would have.

This is a very silly thread.

Does this mean that a Banjo isn't an instrument its own right, because it's merely a development of traditional African instruments?

Or does it mean that lightbulbs were never invented, because they were always [i]possible[/i]?

Silly, silly thread.

[i]"a polyphonic version of his instrument using a device held in his volume hand. This is one of many areas that technical researchers need to study further"[/i]

Polyphony for Theremins is probably pointless - True polyphony (where individual notes can be played polyphonically - rather than just polyphony in terms of selecting a chord and shifting this chord under control of the pitch antenna) even if technically achievable, would be unplayable. I was under the illusion that virtually unlimited potential existed for making these kind of 'improvements' to the Theremin... But the reality is that even in its simple form, the Theremin is extremely difficult to play even tollerably well - there is little (or no) room for adding complexity.. I think humans need to evolve a bit more before we catch up to the potential of an advanced polyphonic Theremin! - At best, we MIGHT manage a duophonic instrument (say 2 tones, one dependant on distance from pitch antenna, the other an interval of this selected by the elevation of the pitch hand).

[i]"Or does it mean that lightbulbs were never invented, because they were always possible?"[/i]


lightbulbs were not [i]"always possible"[/i] (well, being pedantic, I suppose they were - but they would not have been functional - so would they have been lightbulbs? .. This gets sillier and sillier.. :) There was technology (generation of electricity for a start) which needed to precede them.

[b] Patent stuff...[/b] [i] some pasted from Wiki ..
This touches on the (now largely ignored, particularly by the USA) principles
according to which an invention should be sufficiently inventive — i.e., non-obvious — in order to be patented.

The other relevant principle relates to "Prior art".. Is there any teaching in the prior art, as a whole,[/i][b] that would, not simply could,[/b][i] have prompted the skilled person, faced with the objective technical problem formulated when considering the technical features not disclosed by the closest prior art, to modify or adapt said closest prior art while taking account of that teaching [the teaching of the prior art, not just the teaching of the closest prior art], thereby arriving at something falling within the terms of the claims, and thus achieving what the invention achieves?
If the skilled person would have been prompted to modify the closest prior art in such a way as to arrive at something falling within the terms of the claims, then the invention does not involve an inventive step.[/i][b] <- end of patent stuff [/b]

In my opinion Lev certainly qualified for grant of his patent, and certainly should be credited as the inventor and 'creator' of this instrument without qualification, and certainly should not be insulted by having his invention attributed to some divine intervention - it is my understanding that Lev was an athiest.

FredM wrote:

In my opinion Lev certainly qualified for grant of his patent, and certainly should be credited as the inventor and 'creator' of this instrument without qualification, and certainly should not be insulted by having HIS invention attributed to some divine intervention - it is my understanding that Lev was an athiest.

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Neither God nor Lev Termen were at the root of the invention of the theremin. In his book THEREMIN, ETHER MUSIC AND ESPIONAGE, author Albert Glinsky goes into considerable detail about the importance of the invention of the audion tube (and in particular Lee De Forest's triode lamp) in the development of Termen's heterodyne instrument.

It seems that De Forest experimented with gestural control of musical notes in a heterodyne device long before Lev Termen or Maurice Martenot began their work. In 1915 De Forest filed for a patent on "ELECTRICAL MEANS FOR PRODUCING MUSICAL NOTES". He wrote: "...the pitch of the notes can be changed by putting the finger on certain parts of the circuit or even by holding the hand close to parts of the circuit.........The idea of producing beautiful musical tones by an entirely new method unknown to all our great composers and perhaps offering to future composers new fields for their genius, has truly captivated me."

Lev Termen, although he was descended from French Huguenots who fled persecution by the Roman Catholic kings of France in the 17th century, was an atheist. According to Clara Rockmore, however, he offered to convert to Judaism and to undergo the Brit Milah (the Jewish ritual circumcision) if she would accept his proposal of marriage.

Now THAT'S love!

[i]"In 1915 De Forest filed for a patent on "ELECTRICAL MEANS FOR PRODUCING MUSICAL NOTES". He wrote: "...the pitch of the notes can be changed by putting the finger on certain parts of the circuit or even by holding the hand close to parts of the circuit"[/i]

That is most interesting - Thanks Coalport! ... So Lev was not the first to think about proximity detection's musical application .. what he did was to take the idea and turn it into a specific musical instrument.

It is probably then still correct to attribute the creation of the Theremin to Lev - But in the light of the above, there was clearly a "Prior art" - and it is perhaps possible that, had De Forest filed a tighter specification and/or claims, Lev may not have been granted all the claims of his patent.


I need to read that book!

De Forest created a musical instrument using heterodyning in 1915, predating the theremin.

There's a page about The Audion Piano here (http://120years.net/machines/audion_piano/index.html).

I rather like this quote from his autobiography:

[i]Sounds resembling a violin, Cello, Woodwind, muted brass and other sounds resembling nothing ever heard from an orchestra or by the human ear up to that time - of the sort now often heard in nerve racking maniacal cacophonies of a lunatic swing band. Such tones led me to dub my new instrument the 'Squawk-a-phone'.[/i]

http://120years.net/machines/audion_piano/index.html

Lee's got you beat, Fred! I count 27 knobs on that audion piano! Wonder what all they did?

Don