Coalport ~ Talking Machine .. .. ..

RS Theremin wrote:

TM Sample 3    I think it might sound OK. LOL

I do not recommend the TM to anyone that does not have full control and technical understanding of their theremin.

Christopher, there is a lot of distortion on the sample above and there is also a "ghost" tone shadowing the notes as you play. It moves with the theremin so I suspect it is coming from the instrument itself and not from any of your peripherals.

I have always thought that the "magic" of the theremin comes from the fact that it sounds so human. People who attended Leon Theremin's original demonstrations back in the 1920's and 30's, never having heard an electronic musical sound before, often remarked that they thought they were hearing the "voices" of angels or the "singing" of disembodied spirits. 

The most sought-after sound for theremins seems to be what has come to be called the "singing lady". This particular timbre, if your theremin is capable of generating it at all, only works when you are playing within the range of a soprano or mezzo soprano. The instrument loses its "humanity" if you go too high (squeaky) or too low (buzzy)

ENTER: The Talking Machine

The theremin can now fearlessly play in the range of the tenor and baritone and retain its uncanny human timbre. There is only one preset on the TM where this will work but it can be very effective - with certain limitations.

There is tremendous power in the sound of a great tenor or baritone singer. I have stood next to a couple of the greatest classical singers of the 20th century when they have been singing full voice and the sheer volume of the sound they can produce is astonishing. Their voices, when they are singing fortissimo on their high notes, can easily ride, unamplified, over the top of a full symphony orchestra. 

Here is where the TM breaks down. If you are playing your theremin through the TM using the open "AH" sound, and if your instrument is properly adjusted, you can get a surprisingly human sound from the lower and mid tenor/baritone registers but as you go higher and approach C5 (or tenor "high C" = one octave above Middle C) you do not get the power of Pavarotti. Instead, you slide into a tenor "falsetto" or alto sound. There is nothing wrong with that, but the timbre lacks the impact of a full-voice, dramatic tenor high 'C'. Instead, it's a loud mid-range soprano. 

This makes the TM "AH" sound more appropriate for the gentler art song/lieder repertoire, rather than grand arias like "Vesti la giubba" from PAGLIACCI. In the lingo of singers, the TM as it goes higher in the tenor/baritone range, automatically leaves the "chest tone" and goes into the "head tone". 

I'm not sure how much interest or importance any of this has for the good people in this forum but here is an example of what I mean. This is the aria CELESTE AIDA from Verdi's opera "Aida" played on the Julius Goldberg RCA using the Talking Machine on the open "AH" with the settings I described in a previous post. 

Verdi's music calls out for tension in the high notes but the TM/RCA although it can give us volume, cannot give us that triumphant, over-the-top, WOW! that great tenors can achieve. The theremin floats effortlessly into its high notes, whereas the human must work for both power and control, all of which translates into INTENSITY. 

http://www.peterpringle.com/music/aida.mp3

Coalport said: "I have always thought that the "magic" of the theremin comes from the fact that it sounds so human. People who attended Leon Theremin's original demonstrations back in the 1920's and 30's, never having heard an electronic musical sound before, often remarked that they thought they were hearing the "voices" of angels or the "singing" of disembodied spirits."

I had a brief conversation about this subject yesterday, funny you should bring it up. Your complete writing above is very interesting.

In my other sound sample I attempted to show something about the TM but my use of words fell short of the mark. This sample is properly setup for those who did not understand the previous experiment and don't care.

Baritone Blues  .mp3  182kb

After 10 yrs it should be obvious I am unable to play the instrument and do appreciate feedback when needed. I am unable to hear ghosts and birdies but see traces on the scope and just pray they are not heard by others.

I still stand by:

I do not recommend the TM to anyone that does not have full control and technical understanding of their theremin. As I always said a theremin has more reasons to sound bad than good, the TM could be more comical than you expected.

Christopher

Chris,

Your "Baritone Blues" is a lot cleaner and one can certainly hear human formants - It is interesting looking at the waveforms of this compared to the "TM sample 3".. There are far more harmonics in "Baritone Blues" but it sonds cleaner - by comparison, your "TM sample 3" on cursory examination looks 'cleaner' - but this is just because the waves lack harmonics - on closer examination one can see a "ghost" tone superimposed on the trace - a tone whos frequency tracks the fundamental.. I am not sure, but I think this tone is probably more bothersome because there are so few other harmonics in the sound to 'mask' it.

Fred.

The Talking Machine is an interesting device, I am starting to think I can't live without it, but:

The input of the TM must not be over-driven.

The input wave shape is important for a realistic sound. (soft ramp)

Keeping input level to the TM constant and volume control afterward is my personal preference.

The TM takes the simple transistor oscillator to a level unachievable before!

I think the two reasons I can't play the theremin are the fact I do not have music in my soul and I don't own CD's so I don't know any songs.

A Moment with Bing   mp3  280 kb

A droning baritone, I hope you are entertained.

Christopher

"One's love of music is unrelated to whether or not one has music in one's soul." - Coalport

To me, this whole matter is in the domain of metaphysic (as in, IMO, pseudo science) - and makes huge undefined (and untestable) assumptions.. What, for example, is music? And "the soul" ? Do we have "a soul" and if we do, what is "it" ? - When we talk of these things, are we talking about some "spiritual" "entity" which "resides" in us, or are we talking about  some internal neurology related process?

I think the aswers one will get for these questions will be hugely different from different people - they will vary depending on the answerers paradigms and beliefs.

And, IMO, on these matters, more than on any other matters, nobody "knows" what they are talking about!

Fred.

Has anyone tried sending a voice through it?

Just wondering.....

"Has anyone tried sending a voice through it?" - w0ttm

Through what - the TM or a theremin?

Voice through the TM could be interesting I think! - I suspect the input voice harmonics would be lost, and the selected vowel formants would substitute the input signals formants, so the input voice fundamental would determin the pitch.. could be interesting set to a mix of both input and TM generated sound.. might sound like two voices singing at the same pitch... (?)

I have played with modulating the theremins VFO with external audio input (including voice) and one can get some truly weird results, ring-modulator like.. but the most useful result musically I obtained by modulating the VFO with the audio from the theremin - this greatly increases the harmonic content of the theremins audio.

Fred.

Fred wrote: "To me, this whole matter is in the domain of metaphysic..."

I agree, Fred, although I tend to regard the concept of "having music in one's soul" as poetical rather than metaphysical. As you know, the phrase as it is used within the context of the theremin, was originally a quote from Clara Rockmore. 

Clara was talking about newcomers to the theremin and the difficulty of learning to play the instrument. She said, "First have music in your soul. If you have that, you will find a way to do it."

Personally, I tend to regard the idea as a neurological phenomenon rather than a "spiritual" one. For me, and by my definition, people who have music in their souls are people who have music playing in their heads all day. I don't just mean that they play a little ditty in their musical imaginations once in a while - it plays in their heads constantly during their waking hours whether they like it or not. (Yes, it subsides during sleep). 

These people, and I think there are probably quite a few of them, are able to hear full arrangements and/or orchestrations of music they like (which could be Beethoven or Rock & Roll) or of original music they can mentally compose themselves - and it "plays" with all the impact and clarity of a fine stereo or a live performance. 

As you say, the notion of "music in the soul" will mean different things to different people and everybody's right. It is not a phrase I would use if it were not for Clara's quote. I hope that the CLARAfication of what I mean when I use it sheds some light on my previous post.

A couple of weeks ago, I was invited to lunch by a very good friend who plays the saxophone as a hobby. She is not particularly good at it, but she loves it. A musician acquaintance of hers had written her a solo composition for sax and she was very anxious for me to hear it. While I was chatting with some of the other guests in the living room, our hostess went into the library and put a recording of the composition into the CD player. As we all chatted away, the piece played in the other room, in the background.

"You didn't listen to my saxophone composition! You were all talking!" said my friend when the disc finished. 

"I don't know about everybody else but I listened to it." said I smugly, and I promptly sang it for her, note perfect, from beginning to end (it was short, rather simple, and not particularly interesting).

I can do this because there is ALWAYS some part of my brain that is fixed on music no matter what else I may be doing. As I type these words, my mind is playing Schubert's DER HIRT AUF DEM FELSEN. Music is always there no matter what. Sometimes it's wonderful but most of the time it's a nuisance. 

There is nothing unique or particularly special about this and I believe there are plenty of people who experience it. 

If I had been trying to express what Clara said, I would have said it differently. "To succeed at playing the theremin, first you must be obsessed with music and compulsively driven to dedicate the tremendous amount of time and energy that will be needed. If you are, you will find a way to overcome the physical and technical challenges that will inevitably present themselves." OWTTE

As for there being some "spiritual entity that resides within us" that would presume that we exist at all! 

CAGO ERGO SUM

"For me, and by my definition, people who have music in their souls are people who have music playing in their heads all day. I don't just mean that they play a little ditty in their musical imaginations once in a while - it plays in their heads constantly during their waking hours whether they like it or not. (Yes, it subsides during sleep)." - coalport

Mark me (and my spouse) down as one of those. Often the lyrics of the song going through my mind surprise me by highlighting something else I'm thinking about.  Other times it's like a broken record and somewhat annoying.

I wonder how prevalent it is?